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Re: New to Beta engine - hints and tips

By TheAdmiral
9/21/2021 5:15 pm
So what plays work in BETA in the passing game.

Here's a breakdown of every play from every game of week 1, tab 2 takes a closer look at passing plays - the majority of which are plays with a minimum of 4 attempts, obviously it's a very small sample and not something I'm planning on posting very often (if ever again) - as it's a ball ache to grab the data and seperate it.

It's very useful information though.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bK7RCcsSppLiyoiqg3aLj-TEM3BH3hVHXKZEhPolRE0/edit?usp=sharing

Re: New to Beta engine - hints and tips

By setherick
10/17/2021 10:30 pm
Cross posting this thread where I laid out my thoughts on how speed changed, which I don't think is a good change, but which makes certain players make more sense: https://bigdata.myfootballnow.com/forums/4/27?page=1#42

Update: Now with pictures.
Last edited at 10/19/2021 8:44 pm

Re: New to Beta engine - hints and tips

By setherick
10/20/2021 6:04 pm
Cross posting this in Big Data.

I’m starting to put together some notes about passing in 4.6. First off, passing is harder, period. But it’s not as impossibly hard as it first seems.

Passing in 4.5 is all boom/bust with the dice rolling boom more than they roll bust. Most of this is because of coverage on backside slant routes, specifically the FL Hitch, that get targeted more than other routes by the QB. This had a way of blowing up passing stats, but actually is pretty inefficient to running an offense when you faced a team that knew how to take away those plays.

Here are some of the things that make passing in 4.6 different:

By volume passing is in. - This is what’s going to hurt most game planners. There are no built in analytics that give you numbers like completion percentage and average yard per play is basically useless since you’re not going to run enough plays over the course of a season to make it meaningful. As such, it’s going to be hard for the casual player to find enough plays that consistently get 5-10 yards per play to the primary target (see point 2).


The big plays are coming on the second or, even, third read. - The big plays that I’m seeing consistently show up are coming on the QB’s second or, even, third read on the play. I’ll show some data about this later, but here’s an example now.

The reads on the 311 PA Flats go like this: TE1, WR1, FB2. With a good TE (see next point), the play gets between 5-7 yards per play. (My TE in League of Legends has a 91% completion rate for a median of 5.5 yards per play, which will keep a drive moving.)

The big play opportunities are the WR1 and FB2. The FB2 has always been a big play threat for this play because the WR5 goes uncovered by a lot of defenses. The wrinkle in 4.6 is how often the WR1 gets targeted. In 12 games in LOL, my WR1 has been targeted 11 times for 8 completions and a median of 21 yards per play. He’s ripped multiple 40+ yard TDs on the play.

This is just one example. But it’s becoming a theme in the data that I’ve seen. I’ll have laid out some other examples elsewhere but without a lot of data, it’s hard to see all the patterns.

The TE is back. - In 4.5 TEs basically went away. They were great utility players on plays like the 311 PA Flats and the 113 TE Quick Out, but it was hard to get a TE above 50% catch rate. This changes in 4.6. TEs can now be considered a primary target, and should be targeted a lot if you have a good TE.

For example, let’s take the 113 TE Quick Out. Most player know and use this play, but it works better now. My low B&R, overall average TE in LOL has caught 11 in 19 targets on this play for a median of 6 yards per play. OK, 11 of 19 is not impressive, but the fact that his median is 6 yards despite catching just 57% is hugely impressive. I’m sure that a better B&R TE with the same attributes would do better, but he’s getting the job done.

TEs are also becoming more reliable secondary targets. My TE1 has caught 5 of 7 targets for a median of 5 yards as the second read on the FL Hitch.

It’ll be interesting to see how these things play out with more data and we start identifying more plays that work. The overall right now is that we will have to think about passing as more complex than the one route and go plays that we saw in 4.5.

Re: New to Beta engine - hints and tips

By TheAdmiral
10/21/2021 6:40 am
Loving this post Setherick, really backing up my original thought that the passing game is much more 'interesting' and varied in 4.6/BETA as more routes are targetted. It may not have the boom/bust excitement of 4.5 but (my opinion) there are a wider range of viable plays. This leads to a wider variety of ways to be successful without having to stick to the half dozen plays that have the WR2 run the outside slant in route.

I've been looking at Play Action in recent weeks, in what should be high % running plays (primarily 1st and 10 and short yardage situations). With a run heavy approach that many have adopted in 4.6/BETA, play action should provide a number of killer plays (theoretically). I think these will be aided if you have a QB with good skills for misdirection (which I guess would be Look Off Defense) and a good route-running RB/FB to 'sell the fake'

I also think (anecdotal) that the 005, 014 and 104 sets are much more viable in 4.6/BETA. In particular the quick release (short pass) as the rushing DL/LB/DB are negated before they can get into the play. Against Blitz heavy teams, I think these plays can be deadly - but also carry risk if your QB pass protection is poor/average

Re: New to Beta engine - hints and tips

By TheAdmiral
10/22/2021 8:34 am
Setherick has pointed out that the majority of passing plays in 4.5 work due to spacing and throwing into a crowd leads to problems. However I'm also seeing 'pick' plays like this one - 2 examples from todays game in Victory

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/2128#389964

https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/2128#390044

It's a 221 TE Sneak Out and has proven to be a stellar play in 4.6. The TE1 is generally the target but in these two examples he blocks the Safety as the WR cuts in front of him. The TE2 and the RB draw the second Safety and the MLB creating a huge hole for the WR to run into.

Here's an example of a lightweight LB (CB) being taken out of the game and opening a big hole for the WR to exploit. It's a 104 Singleback 4 wide Quick Outs. The LB only has 33 Strength and 49/57 Tackle ability. He gets bullied by a 198lb WR with 63 Strength and 52 Run blocking. Against a full weight LB, I think this play gets blown up. A play to include against those teams that like to run CB's at LB - should work in 4.5 too.

https://lol.myfootballnow.com/watch/3717#664873


Using CB's on the DL and even some LB's means you won't get much pressure on the QB and teams can run and/or dink'n'dunk on you all day.

Re: New to Beta engine - hints and tips

By setherick
10/22/2021 8:54 am
A good example of a pick play that works in 4.5 and 4.6 is the 113 slot strong post curls. The te screens the wr3 underneath.

Re: New to Beta engine - hints and tips

By Meatmen
12/14/2021 9:49 am
TY COACH, I /and many othersfrom Paydirt have been playing in the Big Data league and I have some good info to share. I'm quite sure that there are others that will do the same. I will probably get knocked out in the 2nd round of the post season considering the competition, but I did well enough to get a bye., that's gotta count for something? lol..............................MM

I should also thank the guys that did alll the brain work....Seth and The Admiral. "see the best/Be the best!....................................................MM
Last edited at 12/14/2021 9:54 am